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mike shupp

The facts don't really matter at this point. Conservatives are just reduced to running about and screaming at this point. I think it's the modern equivalent of early empire Romans screaming "I'm a Blue! I'm a Blue!" and "Greens Forever!"

I don't think there's much prospect for improvement until the economy has greatly improved and we've had white skinned Presidents for a decade or two. And maybe not then unless China has collapsed and we've dropped a couple dozen H-bombs on Iran. And a whole lot of idiotic old men with a taste for rule have died and a couple dozen million Ayn Rand enthusiasts have become dependent on Social Security and Medicare.

Kind of a wretched thing to say. After all, I think of myself a fairly conservative guy, registered as a Republican for 45 years. And there a lot of lunatic liberals out there too. But ....

Dave Tufte

"Conservatives are just reduced to running about and screaming at this point." Pretty much ... jeez.

What was with the Roman color reference? Is that what they used to do in the circus for chariot races?

I agree with you ... the situation is sad for someone who's been fairly consistently conservative/Republican.

BTW: I heard a good retort a couple of years back. It's to the effect that Republicans are only against current tax increases (or tax increases for people who vote). They're just as happy with future tax increases as Democrats are ... and this is really what today's deficit spending is.

mike shupp

Blues, Greens, and IIRC Reds were factions at Roman chariot races (yes, the "circus") -- think of them as Packer and SeaHawk and Charger fans and you'll get the idea. The Reds faded out over time, leaving Blues and Greens as the two major groups.

'Course they weren't just sports fans. They demonstrated. They rioted. They backed particular politicians. Rule of thumb, the Blues stood for the Emperors and the Aristocratic factions in society, the Greens were more atuned to commoners. Towards the end, they took opposing sides in the religious controversies that so enlivened Byzantine culture.

But basically, this became partisanship for the sake of partisanship. They were contending mobs, with immense staying power. People were born into the Greens, let's say. Their parents were Greens, their friends were Greens. They bought shoes from Greens and their food from Greens, And the two factions virtually covered the Roman Empire, from late Repulican times till Justinian decapitated the Green leadership around 610 AD or so (the Nika Revolts).

Isn't history fun!

David Tufte

Too cute: did you notice there are blues and greens and reds in the chart above.

Anyway, I thought I knew a lot about Roman history and culture ... but all of this is new to me.

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