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Pat L

I think that Denver took over Seattle's status as a mecca for slacker migration at some point, but I don't know if there is enough there overall to claim the crown.

I agree that the competition is still wide open. If I had to choose now I'd go with Austin. They are strong in political influence, education, technology, and culture. The Latin influence is there and the hip keep buying in. You've got iconic figures like President Bush, Micheal Dell, Stevie Ray Vaughn, Richard Linklater, and Bevo.

Have a Merry Christmas and good luck with those courses next semester.

David Tufte


Denver was always a slacker destination. I think Seattle had more to offer to a wider range of people.

As for Austin, I'd be more tempted to give it honorable mention for the 90s: Bush was there in the 90s, Dell is flopping, Vaughn has been dead for 15 years, I don't think Linklater has the oevre of the Wilson's, and I'm guessing that you included Bevo as some sort of statement about trendiness (if so, it's more regional than national).

Having said all that, my point was more or less that I can't see Phoenix having a whole lot of claim, so I'll entertain Austin until 2010.

Half Sigma

Phoenix is too anti-intellectual to ever be the city of the decade. There are not really smart people living in Phoenix. Intel has a big engineering facility in a suburb of Phoenix, but everyone knows the best engineers are in California and not Chandler Arizona.

The Gin Blossoms were from Phoenix, but unfortunately they only had one good CD and then faded into obscurity.

David Tufte

Didn't you mention once that you are from Phoenix?

In any event, you've got some harsh words, but it proves my point that Phoenix doesn't have a whole lot going for it.

Wouldn't it be better to say that Gin Blossom had half of a really, really good CD?

Pat L


Are we talking about iconic status in popular culture, or a place that serious artists, writers, and other creative people are drawn to?

If the former, I don't see how Bevo, a regional symbol looking to make a national move against the Trojans on January 4th, is more trivial or trendy than Seattle coffee. Though I do agree that whatever it is, it was Seattle in the 90's.

If the latter, doesn't the 20's absolutely have to be Paris, or are we limited to the U.S?

Okay, substitute Lyle Lovett for Vaughn, the point is they have good music.

I thought that Linklater's 'Waking Life' was very much worth watching. The chick movies aren't as painful as they could be.

Does having it going on in the 90's disqualify you for the 00's? This would be the only circumstances under which Vegas doesn't blow away Phoenix and SLC. In fact, change my vote to Vegas.

Phoenix is nice place for humidity averse older folks to retire to. Our generation and the country are getting older. We may still be trendsetters, but maybe not such hip ones anymore. However, you are probably still hipper than I am. I can't even find The Wilsons on Google.

Maybe its the blogosphere, or the internet in general. Reduces the marginal benefit of creative people congregating together by reducing the external economies.

Maybe it's just Brooklyn or Hoboken or wherever the rent refugees of Soho and the East Village ended up.

Anyway, sorry for the length. The last word is yours, if you want it.


David Tufte

1) We're talking about both - iconic and a place people are drawn to.

2) My understanding is that Paris in the 20s wasn't drawing much other than Americans. Anyway, I am limiting this to the U.S.

3) No, being close in the 90s doesn't eliminate you from contention in the 00s.

Getting back to Phoenix, I don't get the attraction either. But the migration numbers are just unbelievable, and it isn't all retirees.

As for Las Vegas - which I've had the opportunity to observe fairly closely over the last 15 years - my sense is that it hasn't recovered from the 90s building boom and 9/11 yet. It just doesn't seem to be cooking over the last 5 years they way that it was.

In a nutshell, that's why I'm perplexed: Phoenix is lame, Las Vegas isn't jumping into the breach, and SLC is a distant third.

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